But I was kind of out-ish as a lesbian at the time, and that - I - I definitely experienced some - some issues for that. And so I did a year and a half on active duty, um, but I was not really even out to myself as trans at that point, so it didn't cause too many problems. KATHY: Did you feel like there were - I dunno - ways that you felt unsafe in the military? We didn't have the same freedom that - that gays and lesbians did at that time to be out about our gender identity. It wasn't - it wasn't something that people would advertise by any means. I do know that there were people that, when I was in, were out to certain people in their command, but it was a very hush-hush, secrecy-type thing, and it was only when they knew they were supportive. And a lot of it, too, had to do with the fact that I was stationed at a base that was a little bit more conservative and I didn't feel that my chain of command would have been supportive of me coming out and transitioning. TOBIN: And so that influenced your decision on being out and when to transition and all of that. TOBIN: Did you know people who were immediately discharged for being trans? JORDAN: But they were not aware that I was transgender or anything like that at the time, because it would have led to an immediate discharge. And so I started medically transitioning with testosterone about 6 months or so before I separated.
And so, for me, since I joined for educational benefits, I was very, very afraid of losing those, and afraid of losing my job, and afraid of, y'know, losing the community that I had built at my base and serving in the reserves. And so if you came out as trans, you're immediately separated. There was never an official ban, per se, against transgender personnel, but it was a de facto ban based off of administrative policies that essentially left no room for transgender members to exist. JORDAN: There was never a ban in place like Congress put "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" as a ban against gays and lesbians. KATHY: To what extent were you able to be out in the military? And then I didn't want to come out with a lot of student loan debt, and so I started looking into the educational programs that the military had to offer. My family has been in all branches, and so we have a very big military tradition going on and so it was something that was always in the back of my mind, but one I hit around my junior year, I started kind of realizing, y'know, college was expensive. I'm a fifth-generation military kid, I guess. KATHY: Jordan, will you tell us about when you enlisted in the military and why you did so? it's - it's disheartening, to say the least. And, y'know, to see all of it kind of just so blatantly disregarded by our Commander-in-Chief, um.
I just felt my heart sink, y'know? Because we've made so much progress and we've worked so hard and this is a battle that I've been a part of for so many years. There was some part of me that just felt. JORDAN: I - I - I was honestly pretty devastated. TOBIN: What was your reaction when you heard? So it was the first thing I saw when I woke up, and then I started getting some emails, and now we're here. Many of my friends are trans themselves, and a good chunk of them are veterans, so this is an issue that definitely impacts me and my community very closely. JORDAN: Um, I woke up to it and it was all over my social media. KATHY: So, how did you find out about the news? I, uh, go to the University of Colorado Law School, and I served as a senior airman in the United States Air Force for 4 years. KATHY: So, as we're trying to get our head around all of this, we wanted to take a step back and talk to someone who not only served, but also navigated what it's like to be trans while in the service. The Pentagon seemed caught off guard and the story continues to develop. TOBIN: There's still a lot of confusion about what the Tweets actually mean. KATHY: And starting last summer, they were allowed to serve openly in the military. So, just to give you an idea, there may be as many as 15,000 transgender people currently serving in the Armed Forces. KATHY: So we thought we'd jump in with a quick bonus episode of Nancy. KATHY: Which, in our circles, was pretty devastating. So, President Donald Trump announced on Twitter that the military would ban transgender people from serving in any capacity. KATHY: So we started yesterday like we do so many days - and that is with a flurry of push notifications and news alerts.
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